349875 ответов в этой теме

[Апостол]

Андрей Прист невероятно жжёт сёдни, особливо про кутуза))... былаб репа- плюсанул

[Deap]

Ты это сможешь трезвый повторить?)

Я и пьяным это повторить не смогу

[STATHAM.72]

Андрей Прист невероятно жжёт сёдни, особливо про кутуза))... былаб репа- плюсанул

Да сижу спокойно...С братвой общаюсь...С дочами играю...)))Что пил,что-нет...Литр вина+2 пшенички...Наверно схожу докуплю...С Рихадом хочу бухнуть...За вечер узнаю больше,чем за всю жисть!Беспесты!...

[Апостол]

За вечер узнаю больше,чем за всю жисть!Беспесты!...

спасибо товарищу рихаду... за нашу счастливую жисть!)

[Cub]

мне кажется сегодня у половины Форумчан  ЗАГРУЗКА )))

[STATHAM.72]

Жена котлет невьебенных нажарила...Вот думаю-как плохо без ДНП!...Сожрал бы ФФСЁ!...Или за пивом идти или котлеты есть...Или-рыбу с чечевицой ёппаной жрать?Весёлый выбор...(((Наверное-первое...После-второе...После-третье...ИМХО нах...)))

Ничего,браты,если я отойду на время?Тут недалече...)))Спасибо...

[merQ]

Только ненадолго!!

[M. Kvakin]

.Наверно схожу докуплю.

Магазины отпускают "товар" с 11 до 21-00 

[ilay888]

Магазины отпускают "товар" с 11 до 21-00

я думаю у Приста все схвачено)) если очень хочется, всегда можно взять , небольшие магазинчики почти все барыжат по ночам, тем более если постоянный клиент.

[Cub]

а что с КААТСУ , есть положительные отзыва, или очередная хрень?

[Samuel Wimes]

тем более если постоянный клиент

 

А вдруг он последние 2-3 года втирается в доверие, под прикрытием, так сказать? 

 

А где Рихад? Что-то тут совсем не про его дневник...

Сообщение изменено: Samuel Wimes (30 ноября 2013 - 09:27)

[STATHAM.72]

Только ненадолго!!

Камбэк нах!Ещё 1,5 литра...

я думаю у Приста все схвачено)) если очень хочется, всегда можно взять , небольшие магазинчики почти все барыжат по ночам, тем более если постоянный клиент.

Как оказалось-палатки,у коих есть столик и вывеска "Спортпит"!Тьфу блять..."Быстрое питание"-могут торговать пивом всю ночь!Такая рядышком мля-стоит!)))Меня там ещё пока не знают,ибо тарюсь заранее перед треней в "Дикси"!Но тёлка с такими бёдрами в джинсе там работает...)))Пилотка ебучая...(((СПАРТА нах!...

 

а что с КААТСУ , есть положительные отзыва, или очередная хрень?

Это к кому?Я еще не юзал...Заффтра жгуты куплю и в материал обошью...Ибо нех!...

Пацоны!Вы мне пить мешаете!Не хорошо это децл...Дайте открыть...Где Рихад???

Сообщение изменено: PRIEST.72 (30 ноября 2013 - 09:31)

[STATHAM.72]

• PRIEST.72*, ilay888, Slv, Smirnov, Death Star, Alan, rihad, Восьмеркин, Dimik
• Ёпти!Всё нормуль...

[sandwolf77]

rihad,

Рихад,вот ты часто повторяешь, что ХСТ не догма, а набор принципов. Ты сможешь их сформулировать своими словами,чтобы можно было понять ее суть, ее отличие от других систем и причину ее эффективности,не заглядывая в первоисточник? Теми принципами, которыми именно ты руководствуешься, чтобы конструировать оптимальную программу?

Речь не о просто перечислении - вот такой принцип, вот такой. А об алгоритме выбора твоего размышления, что важнейшим является, что второстепенных , но важным и т.д.

Сообщение изменено: sandwolf77 (30 ноября 2013 - 09:38)

[STATHAM.72]

"Доне

а набор принципов. Ты сможешь их сформулировать своими словами,чтобы можно было понять ее суть, ее отличие от других систем и причину ее эффективности,не заглядывая в первоисточник?

Я ёбну...Их-ДВА!

1-Частый и не очень обьёмный тренинг МГ!

2-Линейная силовуха (вес=стресс)...

ИМХО...Первый пункт-правда(тока не очень обьемный,а все больше и больше-обьёмный!)...Второй-муде...

[merQ]

sandwolf77,

да что ты заладил! Тут такая идиллия, а ты опять за свое! Запомни: настоящий мужчина должен построить дом, посадить дерево, тренироваться по ХСТ, вырастить сына и тренировать его по ХСТ!

[STATHAM.72]

Запомни: настоящий мужчина должен построить дом, посадить дерево, тренироваться по ХСТ, вырастить сына и тренировать его по ХСТ!

Тут походу и мужчин то нет!...У меня девки и я не ХСТ-эшник...И дома нет...И деревьефф...БЛЯТЬ!!!Кто тебя за клаву то тянул???

Пайду курить...Отдохнул,бля...(((Вся мотивация-нах...

[STATHAM.72]

Рихад!Как полагаешь...Если я постепенно к маю 2014 г. дойду в обьёмке до 30 сетов/МГ+ААС+ДНП("местами",а не по всей деревне!)-это верное направление?В 41 год?...Я не форсирую...И ДНП буду не 5мг/кг(Борресен-Дучейн),а 2,5 гр!...Не молчи!Вдруг-последний раз общаемся...

[Call me a beast]

Рихад,вот ты часто повторяешь, что ХСТ не догма, а набор принципов. Ты сможешь их сформулировать своими словами,чтобы можно было понять ее суть, ее отличие от других систем и причину ее эффективности,не заглядывая в первоисточник?

Хоть обращение было и не ко мне, я попробую ответить (чисто из спортивного интереса). Да и читал я её давным давно. Адептов и посвящённых прошу не пинать ногами а указать, если не прав.

Насколько я помню, основная фишка ХСТ в том, что тренировки состоят из микроциклов, с последующей прогрессией. Что-то вроде Средней-Лёгкой-Тяжёлой, и в зависимости от этих процентовок устанавливается количество повторений. Таким образом мы тренируем не только сократительный аппарат, но и энергитическую составляющую (типа гликогеновых депо), а на лёгких восстанавливаемся. Так? Хоть на капельку?)

[aid]

По такой логике можно сказать, что почти все песни Арии исполнил впервые Валера Кипелов.

Да. Нормальная логика как раз. Как раз непонятна логика оспаривания этого

[sandwolf77]

Call me a beast,

с теорий ХСТ знаком, мне интересен взгляд рихада, то как он видит всю систему в целом.

[mrmuscular]

Андрюха, лови себе на аватарку, нобле оближ бля...

А DNP не очкуй шанс катаракты хня 1 к 100 кажись и помереть не помрешь, ноя за тебя все равно помолюсь...

Миниатюры

• 

[AnatolyR]

sandwolf77,

в своё время Лайл написал оень неплохую статью посвящённую пронципам HST

поищу завтра на работе

правда это бует на аглицком

интересует?

[STATHAM.72]

Таким образом мы тренируем не только сократительный аппарат, но и энергитическую составляющую (типа гликогеновых депо), а на лёгких восстанавливаемся. Так? Хоть на капельку?)

НИХУЯ!!!Там по гликолизу-нет вовсе НИЧЕГО!15-10-5-негатифф...ЭОС тренинг требует ПОСТОЯНКИ!А 10-5 репсов в 4 сетах-муде креатинфосфатное...У меня один сет на 20 коротких репсов или статика в упор на 20 сек. займут столько же,сколько в ХСТ 2Х5...Тока у меня еще 19 сетов будет...И без отдыха в 2-3 минуты...ХСТ это чистый натяг...Мало кому чего дающий!...

[rihad]

А где Рихад? Что-то тут совсем не про его дневник...

Я тренюсь несколько реже, чем рождаются новые мысли у здешних юзеров, которыми они спешат поделиться с клавой кузьминишной
 

rihad,
Рихад,вот ты часто повторяешь, что ХСТ не догма, а набор принципов. Ты сможешь их сформулировать своими словами,чтобы можно было понять ее суть, ее отличие от других систем и причину ее эффективности,не заглядывая в первоисточник? Теми принципами, которыми именно ты руководствуешься, чтобы конструировать оптимальную программу?

Задача нагружать мышцу минимум каждые 48 часов, ну или хотя бы 3 раза в неделю. Причем делать это нужно с "новым" весом для мышцы, а т.к. постоянно вес мы прибавлять не можем и рано или поздно упираемся в силовой лимит, используется трюк с стратегическим декондицированием (СД) на 10-12 дней - полный отдых от трень. Это позволит использовать веса ниже максимальных "рабочих" для стимуляции мышцы к росту. В стандартной схеме используется 2 недельный микроцикл на 15 повторов, 2 недельный на 10, 2 недельный на 5 повторов, и еще 2 недельный на 5-ПМ весах, или 2-ПМ веса с негативами. Для объема достаточно 1-2 сетов, т.к. было показано, что даже 1 сета достаточно для "анаболического драйва" и роста при частоте хотя бы 3 раза в неделю. Т.е. если в классическом силовом спорте люди долбят максимальный сет снова и снова пока не сделают его больше раз, после чего повышают вес, в ХСТ ты повышаешь вес на каждой тренировке, пользуясь тем, что работаешь не на максимуме. Рост силовых (рост выше прежнего максимума) здесь на втором месте, а на первом месте рост весов в пределах этого максимума. Если удачно подобрать начальный вес цикла и шаг прибавки, ожидается, что стимуляция декондицированной мышцы к росту будет сравнимой с ростом от нового веса, т.к. эффект по сути один и тот же - новый вес. Это конечно не значит, что можно всю жизнь циклировать со штангой от 30 до 50 кг и расти, некоторый абсолютный минимум веса нужен, и он растет, чем опытней ты становишься, т.к. адаптация к весу не только локальная мышечная, но и системная, и ее 10-12 днями отдыха не откатить. Обычно это не проблема, т.к. сила тоже растет, и получается для нового цикла расписывать прогрессию с новым максимумом на 2-5 кг выше предыдущего.

Что касается моей прогрессии, я раньше (да и сейчас немного) не считал рост силы равнозначным весу мышц. Т.е. можно быть очень сильным в тройке, но все еще не иметь тело, которое можно назвать билдерским (я про натуралов). Примеры на форуме есть, не хочу называть, чтобы никого не обидеть. Поэтому я одно время не стал особо давить на ПЖТ, стараясь прогрессировать внутри уже установленных максимумов. Конечно рост обмеров это давало при профиците даже с очень незначительным ростом максимумов, как и рост талии тоже давало. Потом в марте начал диетить, ну и продолжаю до сих пор. В планах допохудеть, после чего начать работать уже стремясь прибавлять к прежним максимумам на каждом цикле. Обычно это несложно с тягой с плинтов, она ведет за собой все остальное. Например на максимальных тягах 170-177 я уже прибавил в жиме лежа, в тягах. ЦНС вздрочивается и выплескивается на другие упры. Также думаю объединить 5-6, 10, и 15 повторку на одной трене, это позволит работать по всем фронтам. Тяжелая работа 5-6 для натяга но без отказа, чтобы суметь это делать 3 раза в неделю, затем 10 повтор почти до отказа, и 15-повтор для метаболики (10 повторный почти-отказ обычно мне не сбивает силовые). До чистого отказа никогда не работаю, он может получиться случайно

[AnatolyR]

I'm sure this was posted here sometime before. And I believe Lyle has changed some of his opinions regarding HST (you can find his critisisms of it on this board). But anyway, I found this on mfw:

 

 

To sum up what I'm going to write up in detail (I lied, I got started

and went ahead and wrote it here), optimal in any sense is a matter of

competing rate processes. Basically a calculus type of program where

the best you can do is optimimze any one part of the system. Sure, you

can always maximize some other part of the system,

but it's usually at the cost of limiting some other.

 

For example, you could train at a higher intensity per workout (close to

max), but this will limit your frequency because of both neural fatigue

and increaed

injury potential. Optimizing the systems means finding a COMPROMISE

between all the variables, the combination of intnsity, frequency,

volume, progression that optimizes what you're trying to do.

 

It's like the old calculus problem of what's the largest area you can

enclose with a fixed amount of fence. You can maximize the long axis

but it will imit the width axis, or vice versa. But neither give the

maximum (optimum) area. Some compromise in long and width axis gives the optimal.

 

In HST, the goal is to optimize (quite generally):

a. physiological

b. practical

c. psychological requirements

 

For hypertrophy. That will lead to some compromises in the system in

order to maximize the system as a whole. Becaues there are ways that

you might maximize 'a' but end up shorting 'b' or 'c' (tangent: my

current scheme for dealing with stubborn bodyfat is in that boat, what I

think is phsyiologiclaly optimal is not practical, hence it is not yet

optimized ; I will end up having to forego some of the physiological

optimality to ensure practical utility).

 

So what are the physiologicla requirements for growth (category a)?

I'm going to ignore the butt simple stuff along the lines of "Pick

exercises that hit the target muscles" that sort of rot. That's all

pretty obvious.

 

If we simplified the physiologicla requirements down to one requirement

it would be:

1. Stimulate protein synthesis such taht net protein accretion ocurs.

 

An additional physiological factor is:

1. Don't get injured

 

That should be obvious: gaining muscle means stimulating the mucle to

synthesize more protein than you're losing over time.

 

So what does stimulating protein synthesis require.

 

1. Tension overload: this should be obvious. So why is it

important. As it turns out, tension turns on a different set of genes

than fatigue. The genes turns on by tension overload 'tells' the nucleus

to churn out an mRNA strand that increaes the muscle's protein content.

Even that has further requirements. mRNA only codes protein because of

the action of ribosomes (cellular machines that turn mRNA directions

into proteins).

 

I adressed this in detail in a thread with Alan McClure. The key

components are this:

a. Exercise increases ribosome activity. After any single exercise

bout, the ribosomes in the trained muscle will increase their activity.

This increase is short term. Based on the data by McDougall (looking at

protein synthesis via tracer research), maybe 36 hours or so. So at 36

hours, ribosome activity in that muscle is back to normal.

 

b. Exercise elevates mRNA levels coding for wahtever protein the muscle

wants to make. As above, this is short term. Any physiology book will

show that as soon as mRNA levels are elevated, the cell will start

degrading them. So increases in mRNA are also transient.

 

c. The cell needs adequate energy (the cell 'knows' how much energy it

has by a variety of means including the ATP/ADP ratio and others). This

does tie in with the volume. Something to note is that the body is NOT

good at doing two things at once generally. Losing fat/gaining muscle

is one ; developing strength and endurance simultaneously is another.

Here's one you never hear about, storing glycogen and building muscle

don't generally occur at the same time. Simply, the body can do one or

the other but not both (but some people can do both well and steroids

increase the ability to do both which is why steroids 'let' you get away

with higher volumes). So what does this have to do with the price of

rice in china? In high volume training, you depelte a lot of muscle

glycogen. So when you refeed carbs, they go to repleting muscle

glycogen first, protein synthesis second.

 

I suspect that the reason that many 'hardgainers' do well on lower

volumes has to do with this. With low volume, they can stimulate

increaess in protein synthesis but do it WITHOUT depleting glycogen so

much that incoming calories go towards glyocgen synthesis. This is

probably a reason taht PL training (low reps don't deplete as much

glycogen since you rely on the ATP/CP energy pathway) works so well for

many as well.

 

Folks who can store glycogen AND syntheesize protein well (becaues of

genetics or drugs) do fine on higher volumes (Since Raj likes trotting

out what 'others' say I"ll play the same game and mention that Poliquin

says that explicitly in The POliquin Principles, noting that certain

types of training work better for individuals who are better at storing

nutrients in their muscles). They are usually the exception in the

weight training world as far as I'm concerned.

 

A couple of other issues, the inclusion of an eccentric (controlled)

component. Studies show that eccentrics:

a. cause muscle damage which

1. stimultes local mechanogrowth factor release, involved in both growth

and satellite cell proliferation

2. upregulates both androgen and IGF_1 receptor number in the trained muscle

 

I'll adress the question of "Why not just do negatives?" below.

 

Ok, so the above gives us a general schema for training for hypertrophy.

We are trying to optimize the following: tension overload (progressive

at that) along with elevating (ANd keeping elevated) both ribosome and

mRNA levels in target muscles. by combining tension overload

(concentric) with an eccentric component, we also generate the damage

which stimulates local MGF release (and satellite cell activation) along

with increases in androgen/IGF_1 receptor number. We want to do this

without depleting glycogen so much taht incoming carbs (which determine

the cells' energy status and thus ribosomal activity) go to glycogen

storage instead.

 

Given the short time courses of both mRNA and ribosome activity, this

means training a given muscle frequently to keep levels elevated

constantly (and remember taht that IS the goal of hypertrophy trianing,

keep protine synthesis elevated as much as possible). ONce every 36

hours might be more optimal, but it's not practical for most people

because it requires training at different times of the day. Training

every 48 hours is a compromise based on practical considerations.

Training lower volume every day is another compromise. Bryan has

offered BOTH as possible solutions.

 

So I've just explained the PRINCIPLES behind low volume higher frequency

training. It's an attempt to optimize teh above variables: progressive

tension overload AND increased mRNA/ribosome levels/activity AND

allowing incoming calories to go towards protein synthesis.

 

Now, some other considerations. What about failure, for example?

 

Bryan is adamant about avoiding failure (except for at the terminal

workout of any given rep range). Why? Two words: neural fatigue.

 

Training to mucsular failure generates neural fatigue far out of

proportion to the muscular stimulus. Empirically, guys going to failure

and beyond need 7-10 days to regain strength production (which they are

incorrectly using as a proxy for muscular recovery). Have them stop one

rep short of failure (a minor decrease in metabolic work) and they

recover more than twice as quickly. early stystems (i.e. Starr's

heavy/light/medium) recognized this. The goal of the light workout was

to give teh muscle 'some' training while allowing overall recovery to

continue. Bryan approahces it by increasing tension linearly for

shorter periods. So intead of H/L/M, you get

lightest/lighter/medium/mediumer/heavy/heavier/. Then backcycle.

 

Scientifically, this has been demonstrated as well. After a

neurally/muscularly damaging stimulus, strenght is lost for the first 2

days but it is NOT due to the muscular damage. Rather, it is due to

impaired excitation/contraction (EC) coupling which refers to everything

that goes on in between the motor neuron (releasing acetyl choline) and

the actual muscular contraction. The short-term strength decrease from

this type of training is neural NOT muscular. So generating it and then

waiting for strenght to recover (HIT fallacy #375) is limiting the

stimulus to the muscle as the expense of the nervous system. W hich is

fine if your goal is nervous system training, but the goal of

hypertrophy/HST is muscular.

 

So consider a situation where you trained to failure during your work

sets. This causes too much neural fatigue to let you train again in a

couple of days (or if you do, you have to use lighter loads which

doesn't fulfill the requirements of progressive tension overload which

means you are already undermining your goals). It's also possible that

higher volumes might cause too much damage along these lines which would

ALSO impair your ability to return to the gym and repeat the workout.

Which compromises the goal of increasing (and keeping increaed)

mRNA/ribosome levels. Basically you need enough volume to turn on the

adaptations WITHOUT generating so much neural fatigue or muscular damage

taht you impair your ability to meet the freuqency requirements. I know

that's not the PROOF that Raj wants but that's the PHYSIOLOGICAL

PRINCIPLE behind the set count.

 

To avoid failure and the accompanying neural fatigue, Bryan suggests

starting submaximally, which *allows* you to add weight at each workout.

This lets you generate the muscualr cahgnes at each workout with

progressive tension overaload (mRNA, ribosomes, etc) WITHOUT generating

the neural fatigue that would compromise said frequency. Again, it's

about optimizing a number of different variables at the same time. You

may not maximize any one variable, but you max maximize the system as a whole.

 

Ok, now you do hit failure at the end of every 2 week cycle. Which will

generate some neural fatigue and cause problems of EC coupling. But its

followed by a built in backcycle as you start the next rep range at a

submaximal level. As well, it's fundamentally impossible to avoid ALL

neural fatigue and it will accumulate over the length of the cycle.

Which the week off at the end goes a long way towards helping with.

 

That same backcycle also ties into injuries. Going at max for long

periods is a great way to get a joint injury because your joints and

connective tissue take longer to recovery than your muscles. Every 2

weeks you get a backcycle built into the system. And every 8 weeks you

get a full week off (which has other implications).

 

Ok, so the next question: why 2 week cycles? Why not longer or shorter?

Is there some magic in 2 weeks? Frankly, no. Bryan picked it as a

compromise. He and I have discussed it and longer cycles would work

just as well (using smaller percentage increases, that sort of thing).

So why 2 weeks? Ties into psychological issues. Bodybuilders are

notorious for not liking to work submaximally (look at how many idjits

on the HST board comment that the yare going to follow the program but

still want to work to fialure). 

 

He had to find a balance betewen what *might* be physiologically optimal

while still fulfilling the psychological needs (and anyone who thinks

that psychological requiremenst are equally critical in program or diet

design is a true theorist who doesn't know anything about human beings

or how to train them) of bodybuilders to work to failure. They don't

like to work at low effort levels which a 4 or more week cycle would

require. So he settled on 2 weeks. They have to start less

submaximally, can use larger weight increases (fulfilling other

psychological needs) and hit a RM every 2 weeks. A compromise to try

and optimize two different variables.

 

Ok, so that explains the frequency, intensity, progression and non

failure part of it. As well as the 2 week cycle (which is arbitrary,

but is a compromise between physiological and psychological needs).

 

Ok, what about the rep progresion. Why 15, 12, 8, 5, negatives? 'Why

not' is the answer. Seriously, anyone who thinks that there is a magic

to rep counts is on drugs. Raj will clamor for proof but I can find

guys who get big on any rep count you can pick. Everything from singles

up to 20 rep squats and everything in the middle. You could use 14,11,9

and 6 for all it would matter in the big scheme. 15, 12, 8 and 5 are

commonly used rep ranges in training, hence psychologically easier for

most to accept. Same reason so few coaches use sets of 13 for anything.

It's tradition more than anything else.

 

But even that's not entirely correct. And it goes back to the injury

issue. As you use continually increasing tension loads (to fulfill the

physiological requirements elucidated above), you start to get

cumulative damage to connective tissue and such (which heals more slowly

than other tissues). Trying to keep adding weight forever eventually

leads to injuries. So you counter "Why not cycle weights differently?"

Becasue that doesn't meet the requirements of progressive tension

overload and the other goals of the system.

 

By the time you get to the negatives (adressed next), you're pushing

that envelope of injury (although this is highly individual). First and

foremost, the week off will give you some time to heal (on top of

another critical component). As well, starting with the higher reps

gives you more time to heal, jacks up blood flow to the joints, and has

hormonal effects that may help with connective tissue healing and injury.

 

Personally, I do NOT consider 15 reps an OPTIMAL range for hypertrophy

(for a bunch of complicated neurological reasons I've elucidated before

and this is long enough already). It's a compromise that Bryan decided

on to give connective tissue microtrauma time to heal. And note that

Bryan has said that you only NEED to do the 15's if you feel strain

(joint) injury coiming on. it's not a REQUIRED part of the program

(listening Raj?), but suggested IF you need it. Otherwise start at 12's

which is more consistent with hypertrophy (higher tension) anyhow.

Again, starting back at 15's is a compromise between physiological and

practical (and injury) requirements. But that's part of the entire

system: trying to optimize all the variables that go into things at the

same time.

 

Ok, negatives and the week off since they are related. If there' a

reason folks stop growing (well, there are lots of reasons) here's the

one nobody every mentions. As you train, your body increases the amount

of connective tissue within your muscular structures. This is geared

towards one thing: decreasing muscle damage from training. 

 

But what did we establish was a REQUIREMENT for growth: muscular damage.

As you train consistently, it becomes harder and harder to generate

that damage. ONe way to keep damage omcing is to keep increasing the

weight, which is already built into HST (you progress from lighter to

heavier over the cycel). Another is with negatives. That's the reason

for their (suggested but NOT required) inclusion. An atteempt to

generate a little last bit of muscualr damage at the end of the cycle as

your body is adapting.

 

Of course, that has to be considered within the context of the overall

system. If you're already beaten up, or can't do negatives safely,

adding them (again, suggested but NOT required, Raj) is a poor choice.

If you're fine joint wise And can do them safely, they may add to the

program. If it injures you, it's crossed the line of optimizing one of

the variables (don't get injured) and isn't part of it.

 

Of course, as anybody knows, doing negatives for long periods generates

so much muscular damage (and neural fatigue for a bunch more complicated

neurological reasons that I"m not boring anybody with since I'm not up

to date on them anyhow) that you overtrain. So Bryan suggests (but does

NOT require, Raj) them at the end of the cycle.

 

Righ before the week off. Which has several goals.

The first is general recover (neural, muscular) after the entier cycle.

The second goal is as important: detraining lets the increaesd

connective tissue go away so that you can get more easy damage when you

start the next cycle.

 

Taht is, at the end of 8 weeks of continuous training (or wahtever the

exact numbers are), damage is too hard to generate because of increaesd

connective tissue (and the practiacl realities that you can only add

weight for SO long before you get hurt). A week off (strategic

deconditioning) lets some of that CT adaptation dissipate so taht damage

(and hence growth) is easier the next cycle.

 

You also have to hope that connective tissue adaptations go away faster

(or to a greater degree) than the size increases which is supported by

data (the early de-adaptation to training is neural first). AS well, if

you did the eccentrics, you should have a delayed training effect that

keeps growth going as the connective tissue is going away. Well, hopefully.

 

The question: is 1 week enough? Some of the data says no, that some of

the connective tissue adaptations are still present weeks or months

after detraining. It might be physiologically optimal to take 3 months

off every cycle but taht crosses practical optimality, not to mention

psychological issues. 

 

Even if it takes 6 months for CT adaptations to go away, that's not

practical for training (train 8 weeks, take 3 months off) because you'd

lose any muscle gained. Nor would it fulfill psychological requirements

because most folks hate being out of the gym even if its better for them

in the long run (Bryan and I have talked about other ways around this,

like very light training because obsessed bodybuilers hate taking time

off). Once again, its a compromise between trying to maximize the

physiological response while taking into account practical and

psychological realities.

 

And those are the main PRINCIPLES behind HST. Read taht sentence again,

Raj. The PRINCIPLES. That's what this thread is mainly to criticize.

 

Summing them up more or less:

Non failure and lowish volume to avoid neural recovery which impairs

training frequency which is necessary to elevate (and keep elevated)

mRNA/ribosome levels, an eccentric component to generate MGF release and

changes in receptor number, etc, etc. The low volume also avoids

glycogen depletion which requires that the muscle first replete muscle

glycogen before it can synthesize new muscle. &c &c. It was a multiple

degree of freedom system that Bryan tried to optimize, maximizing all of

the variables without significantly shorting one. 

 

Because you can easily come up with systems that will increase one

variable but at the major expense of another. WAnt to do higher volume

or go to failure? Fine, but the fatigue will decrease frequency of

training which limits mRNA/ribosome activity. Want to do negatives all

the time for maximal damage? Fine, but you're going to get injured, or

get so neurally fatigued that you lose far more than you gain. Etc.

 

Bryan had to look at ALL of those competing variables to come up with

the PRINCIPLES behind the system. The exact scheme that Raj is

criticizing off of Thinkmuscle is ONE interpretation of those principles

which is mainly for folks who need hand holding. Apparently he still

doesn't understand the difference.

 

The 2 week rep cycles are fairly arbitrary, Bryan would agree. Someone

who can psychologiclaly handle longer periods working submaximally (like

me) could use longer cycles. 2 weeks is a nice compromise between

getting folks to work submaximally and not having them get antsy

(psychological) about working submaximally.

 

8 weeks is convenient in that it lets you get 4 progressive rep cycles

(including the 15 rep cycle aimed mainly at injury control) of 2 weeks

apiece (NB: in Supertraining, Siff/Verkoshansky note that 16-18 week

cycles with 8 week mini cycles was 'found' by Russian coaches to be

aabout optimal before al onger time off was necessary). Then a week of

negs (suggsested but NOT required) for a last littel bit of damage

before the week off.

 

You could set up a 16 week cycle that adhered to the primary HST

PRINCIPLES quite easily. I gave an example for Hella1 for dieting. An

INTERPRETATION of the HST PRINCIPLES for a specific situation.

 

But the principles stay the same. And I contend that they are as

optimized as they can be (optimized within the context of a nubmer of

competint goals) towards hypertrophy. Individual interpretations get

into other practical and/or psychological issues.

 

But the physiological optimality is all based on fundamental biological

principles of the human body.

 

Whew. I'd say that was better than geting laid but I don't have any

frame of comparison. Hopefully it will answer any questions anybody

still has, and explain to Raj what's being discussed here. He's too

busy focusing on trivialities (specific interpretations) and ignoring

the principles of the system.

 

Lyle

[STATHAM.72]

Whew. I'd say that was better than geting laid but I don't have any frame of comparison. Hopefully it will answer any questions anybody still has, and explain to Raj what's being discussed here. He's too busy focusing on trivialities (specific interpretations) and ignoring the principles of the system.   Lyle

Понял тока выделенное...(((Чего там Толя напостил?Рихад?...

[sandwolf77]

Что касается моей прогрессии, я раньше (да и сейчас немного) не считал рост силы равнозначным весу мышц. Т.е. можно быть очень сильным в тройке, но все еще не иметь тело, которое можно назвать билдерским (я про натуралов).

вот этот пункт не понял. а причем тройка и сила мышц? быть сильным в тройке - значит быть пауэрлифтером, и иметь развитые пауэрлифтерские мышцы. огромная сила бицепса(именно сила, способная проявится как в позитиве, так и в негативе и в статике) точно может иметь место без огромного бицепса? 

[rihad]

sandwolf77, не знаю точного ответа на этот вопрос, т.к. у меня абсолютная сила ПШНБ очень медленно растет, можно сказать не растет, хотя этими же весами прибавлял после декондиции и сброса. Бицепс еще растет от простого держания тяжелой штанги (как у меня в шрагах/тяге), это тоже может иметь значение.

[Caze]

Это просто ахуительная тема. И фибриллы, и Кипеловы, и митохондрии, и стрелки-косяки.

 Я ваш постоянный читатель, ничего не вздумайте менять.